Valid Critiques

Presentation Notes

Valid Critiques of the Messianic Movement

I’ve been watching videos of arguments against the Messianic Movement this past week. I hope to respond to some of them soon. However, today I want to talk not about how to convince people about the Messianic Movement, but rather to discuss some of the valid critiques of the movement.

The first is attitude. We can often start out with a sense of excitement, and we’re ready to tell everyone this thing that we’ve found out about.

Even though we probably aren’t knowledgeable or mature enough to be the ones sharing it,

There’s nothing really wrong with wanting to spread the word about something that has opened your eyes to new things about God and the Scriptures.

it’s feels good to share the little it is that we do know and hope that others catch on too.

It’s also shortly after becoming aware of it that we can become a bit overzealous.

That itself can be harmful

However, when that zeal is met with resistance, that can turn into bitterness.

That’s when Messianics start to not only share the truth about something, but to mock and belittle the people they are trying to reach.

Take Christmas for example. I would say for virtually every truly believing Christian, they are celebrating something that they think is honoring to Christ.

-You and I know the origins of the holiday. We know that God said to not to worship Him as pagans do.

But consider that it’s also been hundreds if not thousands of years since your ancestors were worshiping Saturn or whatever false god it was with these practices.

I don’t have to tell you about the warm fuzzies associated with the day.

I don’t have to tell you how important to them Christmas morning or dinner is to their family.

Most us of us have been there.

But be honest, how many of you (maybe there are some), for how many of you was the truth about Christmas the first thing that turned you on to the Hebraic Roots of your faith?

None of this is an excuse. None of this is to condone something that God told us to not do.

But, honestly, is Christmas the battleground? Is that where we need to win people first?

I believe it’s a piece of the puzzle. I definitely believe it’s good to share the truth.

But why make it the dividing line. Why make it a choice about following God or demons to someone that doesn’t even understand, really, the first thing about their identity as the Israel of God.

The question isn’t why would they choose God, but why would they think that’s a valid choice to begin with?

In logic and rhetoric there’s something called a false dichotomy. That’s when someone tells you it’s either this or that, when in fact there may be other options.

Did you that God can overlook presumptuous sin? Did you know that He can have mercy even when people don’t deserve it? At all? Like, not even a little bit.

Did you know that you’re not qualified to decide what sin is worse than another, unless it’s very clear in Scripture. But even if it is, what’s that to you?

Break one and you break the whole thing.

That’s why we’re not under the law. But I’ll save that until the end.

That’s no excuse to sin, but the point is, if God overlooks their sin - be grateful that he overlooks yours, too.

It’s easy to see how the Christians that encounter Messianics at this stage can be turned off to everything they are present.

And that you can be sure that that is happening by the thousands.

For every 1 person that starts trying to keep Torah, how many comments are made to fellow Christians in a divisive and mean-spirited manner?

It would be bad enough for this to happen in person, but it also happens online.

And for every one post online calling Christians pagan, or mocking them for using the name Jesus instead of Yeshua (or Yahusha), there’s dozens, maybe hundreds or thousands of people that see that, and never comment back or engage the discussion. They just see that and think, “Wow what a bunch of

We’ve probably all been guilty of being a little too harsh, or saying things at the wrong time.

We’ve confused boldness with arrogance.

We might have been sharing the truth, but instead of with love it was with harshness, self-righteousness, and mockery.

How many of those people, in person and online, are forever turned off to the entire movement?

Some say that the Jews are right to reject the Torah-breaking, Torah-abolishing Jesus that is presented by the mainstream Christian church.

Well, how many Christians are right for rejecting the Torah Observant movement because they don’t see a spirit of meekness or the brotherly love that is supposed to be the mark of the believer.

[2Ti 2:22-26 NKJV] Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife. And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, and [that] they may come to their senses [and escape] the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to [do] his will.

You might say, see these people are taken captive by the devil.

Maybe to some extent some are,

but notice that even if that is the case, the admonition is to not quarrel, be gentle in your correction, and to do so patiently in humility.

“Cage stage”

While this is a valid critique of the Messianic Movement, it is not unique to us.

Calvinisim (or the Reformed Tradition), for those of you that don’t know, is a belief in certain doctrines held by reformation era theologian John Calvin.

• Not important what exactly they believe, but they are a

-Fairly large group
-Among Calvinists there is a term called “Cage Stage”.

It’s basically the same concept as what I’ve been discussing.

When someone is converted to being a hardcore Calvinist

They can often become overzealous, mean-spirited, and judgmental of those that don’t agree with their theologies.

The more mature Calvinists refer to this as Cage Stage Calvinism because they just wish they could put the person in a cage for a while until they mellow out.

It’s similar with Messianics.

It’s good to be zealous, but there is such a thing as being over-zealous as well.

It can come off as prideful and self-righteous.

It is also true that Christians can give Messianics, especially ones brand new to the movement a lot of flack.

They can lose friends, and receive a lot of false accusations.

That is why it is important to heed the words of Peter.

Even though he is primarily referring to the relationship between believers and unbelievers, it applies in this case as well.

[1Pe 3:8-17 NKJV] 8 Finally, all [of you be] of one mind, having compassion for one another; love as brothers, [be] tenderhearted, [be] courteous; 9 not returning evil for evil or reviling for reviling, but on the contrary blessing, knowing that you were called to this, that you may inherit a blessing. 10 For "He who would love life And see good days, Let him refrain his tongue from evil, And his lips from speaking deceit. 11 Let him turn away from evil and do good; Let him seek peace and pursue it. 12 For the eyes of the LORD [are] on the righteous, And His ears [are open] to their prayers; But the face of the LORD [is] against those who do evil." 13 And who [is] he who will harm you if you become followers of what is good? 14 But even if you should suffer for righteousness' sake, [you are] blessed. "And do not be afraid of their threats, nor be troubled." 15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always [be] ready to [give] a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear; 16 having a good conscience, that when they defame you as evildoers, those who revile your good conduct in Christ may be ashamed. 17 For [it is] better, if it is the will of God, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil.

So that’s the general critique, but here are some specific ones as well:

Slams Christians for saying Jesus instead of Yeshua.

I think most of us here prefer saying Yeshua. I like to use both, but that’s a preference issue.

I get exclusively using Jesus if someone personally finds it more honoring to him, or

they feel it connects them more to the Hebraic roots of the faith.

What I find a problem with is when people use Jesus as distinct from Yeshua in order to differentiate the supposed anti-Torah version of Jesus presented by the Christian world and the Messianic version,

-implying that Jesus Chris is a fake version of messiah and Yeshua HaMashiach is the real one.

They don’t go so far as to say that Christians that call on Jesus aren’t saved, they just belittle Christians with snarky comments.

One, this is annoying, prideful, and plain wrong.

As most of you here, I am someone that was saved by the name of Jesus, and I can tell you that he’s not another person.

However, there are others that say anyone that uses the name Jesus is literally calling on another God.

This is the extreme of the sacred-namer cult.

They will share memes supposedly showing that Jesus actually means “hail Zeus”.

I’m going to go ahead and debunk this one because it’s actually really easy to do.

The first one is the easiest, it’s just 100% false. Literally

I looked up the etymology of each of these words.

Pega does not mean horse

Diony does not mean wine

Ephe does not mean daughter.

Sus does not mean Zeus, as we’ll discuss regarding the next meme

It seems to be that everyone that says this is quoting a book written by a guy in 1983, that I was unable to find any information about. Neither the man or the book even have a Wikipedia page.

Jesus is a transliteration of a transliteration. A translation is when you convert the word to a word with the same meaning in the target language.

A transliteration is when you loosely convert the sounds of a word into the other language. We usually do this with names.

All of the Hebrew names in the Bible for example have meanings, but the translators of English Bibles translate the sound of Hebrew into a similar sounding name with English characters.

ιησούς (Iesous, Jesus)

iota eta sigma omicron upsilon sigma

ζεύς Properly, Ζεύς (Zeus)

zeta epsilon upsilon sigma

I don’t understand to this day why the KJV decided to transliterate names from the Greek instead of using the transliteration of the Hebrew when it knew that the it was the same name.

That’s why Matthew 16:14 reads “And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.”

That’s why we have Moses instead of Moshe, it’s based on the Greek version of the name.

It can seem like everything you’ve been taught in the Christian world was wrong, so you begin to question everything.

But the fact is, most Christians throughout history were pretty faithful to God and maintain most of the core doctrines.

Don’t belittle the name above all names, the name of the Messiah that millions of his followers use, just because it’s a transliteration of the Greek.

Attacks Christians for celebrating holidays that they sincerely believe are honoring God, usually around the time that those holidays are approaching.

I already mentioned Christmas. But the idea here is that it’s a really bad time to argue about the pagan roots of a holiday when that person has been planning their family get-together for weeks and is excited about it.

And again, until you have a foundation of desiring to get back to the ancient paths and separate from unbiblical customs, none of this is going to make an impact.

Are not clear about works (law) not being a salvation issue

Even when it is clearly stated that salvation is by grace through faith alone, Messianics can send mixed messages when it comes to whether disobedience to the Torah causes you to lose your salvation.

It becomes even less those that have heard the “TO gospel of the law”.

Who believes that? (explain)

Can anyone say with 100% certainty that not obeying the Law of Moses cases someone to lose their salvation?

Can we at least agree that it is only a matter of willful disobedience if that person is fully convinced that it is valid and still doesn’t keep it?

Expression of love

Easy to think that if other’s don’t love God in that way then that means they don’t actually love Him,

and therefore aren’t saved.

See how from the outside that really looks like you have to keep the law to be saved -

because that’s pretty much exactly what you’re saying in so many words.

The thing that I’m coming more and more to the realization is that the Christian walk can appear as many ways as there are Christians.

Now in saying that, it’s important to realize that there are certainly ways that are not acceptable to walk, and there are ways that you absolutely should and even must walk to be Christian.

However, we all find different things that we emphasize.

We all have different ways of connecting to God.

We all have different missions.

It’s amazing, really when you think about it.

We like uniformity, but really, as many Christians that there are, everyone has a unique relationship with God.

Sometimes He doesn’t allow one person to do something, that others can do without any correction.

That’s kind of why it never sits right when someone tells you what your life should look like in order for you to be serving God.

The thing is that they might be right about the things you should be doing.

It’s good to be convicted about areas where you are weak,

except when that conviction causes you to work harder in the flesh

and not lean further on Yeshua.

When we’re not acting out of faith,

Not leaning on the grace and mercy of God,

Not relying on the Holy Spirit to change us from the inside out,

Then we’re no better than the Pharisees that washed the outside of the cup and left the inside dirty.

Because we can do all the things, but if it’s not out of love – if it’s not done within our relationship to God, it’s worthless

Faith – Obedience.

Love law.

[1Co 13:1-3 NKJV] Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. And though I have [the gift of] prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed [the poor], and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.

Be careful that in doing works, you don’t make it all about doing works.

This is why we can’t be under the law.

One of these individuals gave a pretty good example. The idea is that love isn’t about checking off lists

If God gave us a list of things to do (which He did), it’s easy to think that those are the only things that matter.

You check off the list and think you’re doing a good job.

The problem is is that you’ve complete ignored the heart aspect

That is the aspect that has to do with your relationship with God

That’s what the religious leaders were promoting

Basically do all of these things to show that you love God and you’ll be good.

Christ came to fullfill the law - not just the written command but to actually embody, to fill full the law with his every action

to show exactly what the law looks like when lived out perfectly.

and to explain the heart of the law

You see, God loves us so much that he doesn’t want us checking off a list

He wants our actions to be an outflow of our relationship with Him

To display His love for us He slew His own son - the perfect embodiment of His word

He lifted up that which was most precious to Him, allowed him to suffer and die in our place.

If after seeing that demonstration of His love, we go back to thinking that it’s possible or even necessary to earn His love, that is, we fall into grave error,

and that is what Paul is refuting when referring to those that want to circumcise his gentile converts. To be circumcised means vowing to fulfill the law in order to obtain the blessing of God.

Disunity and isolation.

This is not so much a critique from the mainstream church world so much as it is a point that they observe.

Several of the videos I watched mentioned how the Hebrew Roots/Messianic movement covers a broad spectrum of beliefs and that there’s not really one unifying idea,

Except the general concept that we should start observing the commands of God

This is just a critique that we all know is true.

The Messianic movement is not one group. The problem with that is that anything out there that has a lot of traction appears to be representative of the group.

But the apparent disunity of the message is a symptom of the disunity of the body itself.

Messianics can be hyper-independent.

For one, they have a hard time fellowshipping with the rest of the church because of doctrinal issues,

they tend to make themselves outcast, because of the first thing I outlined,

in questioning the mainstream doctrines they often swing the pendulum in the opposite direction and question everything

in so doing they fall into all sorts of fringe ideas

Then because of that they can’t get along even with other Messianics.

That’s why this movement isn’t a cult. If it is, it’s a really bad one.

I do believe it’s a moving of the spirit,

but because it’s important, it becomes a target for the enemy, who seeks to sow division among the body.

[Jhn 17:21-22 NKJV] "that they all may be one, as You, Father, [are] in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. "And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:

Again, there are extremes with everything. This isn’t meant to tear down the movement or offend anyone.

As I’ve been saying, the danger of error and apostasy is not unique to the messianic movement. There are entire denominations falling to the whole LGBT agenda.

The prosperity gospel has corrupted most of the Christianty that people find on television - leading millions into error around the world.

Hyper charismatics have gotten into bizarre kundalini-like practices.

Many groups claim to believe in salvation by grace through faith alone, but have their own form of legalism that excludes many from salvation – doctrines of baptism, man-made rules, etc.

So the fact that there are divisions in the Messianic movement isn’t a shock.

However, one big thing that we need to get a grip on is the relationship of the law to salvation.

Salvation has always been by grace through faith.

The obedience that God desires was always based on faith

Just like faith without works is dead as James says,

Works without faith are dead

Not debating over disputable matters. Agree to disagree. Don’t let people be where they are, but let people come in their time.

The law does not disappear, but the relationship that you had with the law dies when you die in Christ.

Because you become a new creature.

Our relationship to God is through Christ, who died.

That’s why we go through the waters of baptism,

because we die.

When we die, we die to the law.

[Gal 2:16-21 NKJV] "knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified. "But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, [is] Christ therefore a minister of sin? Certainly not! "For if I build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. "For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God. "I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the [life] which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. "I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness [comes] through the law, then Christ died in vain."

Our responsibility is not dismissing or minimizing this passage, it’s embracing and explaining this passage.

Because when we don’t fully integrate Paul’s writings (which we can do, I’m not suggesting that we aren’t, its just that it’s easier to not – and that’s why you get a lot of former Messianic that threw out Paul and then most of the NT, and then Messiah, and then the OT, because obviously – why would you observe the OT without Christ)

It’s easier to ignore Paul

But we shouldn’t

Not even the things that we wish he said differently or are difficult to grasp

Peter says the Paul is hard to grasp and …

[2Pe 3:16-17 NKJV] as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable [people] twist to their own destruction, as [they do] also the rest of the Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, since you know [this] beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked;

Thayers:_“_of one who breaks through the restraints of law and gratifies his lusts:”

It is not in minimizing the words of Paul so that we can properly observe Torah

It’s actually in fully embracing the words of Paul that we find the grace to keep the Torah the way that it was always supposed to be kept.

It’s the antinomians that accuse Paul of trying to do away with the law.

I feel like a lot of the time we as Messianics subconsciously accept that premise even as we’re trying to interpret Paul in a pro-Torah way.

I think what Paul was working so hard to do is not make people question the Law’s validity but to place it where it belongs within the New Covenant, which is a response from faith, not what it had been made into by the sons of darkness, which was a means to an end –

[Rom 10:1-4 NKJV] Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Of course you need to obey. But it’s more like, you will obey if you have faith.

That’s why Paul seems so harsh against the law because its absolutely important that obedience be kept below (or behind) faith in terms of our understanding of our salvation.

And he was responding to the circumcision party, the Judaisers that were literally just trying to make converts of their own out of the gentiles that he converted. It was a constant threat.

Imagine a Jewish person trying to make converts and suddenly there are all these gentiles becoming interested in the God of Israel.

Of course they would find them an easy target.

And of course the gentiles that come to faith in Yeshua would be hungry to know more about the God of Israel.

And these Jews are literally the expert!

So of course they would be swayed by anything they have to say.

Mike Winger … said he had a hard time finding a TO person actually addressing Paul’s writings.

Now, I haven’t found that to be the case. Most of the Messianics I know have a pretty good understanding of Paul.

That’s the first thing that you kind of need to address when coming into the movement.

But I can see that if you just do a Google search, the names that you probably come up with are not a good representation of the Movement.

The big name that’s actually pretty good is Psalm 119 ministries

It should not be this way.

99% of Paul is pretty simple to understand – I didn’t say easy – but simple when you put what he’s saying in the exact context of what he’s talking about and stop pulling verses out as proof texts. It usually has to do with justification before God, and if not its probably twisted way out of context.

Being under the law means “I have to do this and this and not do that or else”

Obedience out of faith and love says God is so good and merciful to me - I don’t have to do anything to earn His love.

Oh, but here’s some days that He set apart as holy and point prophetically to His son - I want to do them.

Oh, he said that these animals are unclean and eating them is an abomination to Him - I want to honor that.

Anymore, I don’t judge people for believing centuries of doctrine from seemingly well-meaning people.

I think it’s just a matter of showing people that you aren’t rejecting Christ by observing a handful more commands than you already do.

It isn’t a matter of you have to do this - that is coming from an under the law mentality

It’s just a matter of asking them, why wouldn’t you want to?

It’s removing the misguided fear about observing these things

and presenting the them as the ordained expression of love that they actually are.

[Jer 31:31-34 NKJV] "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah-- "not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the LORD. 33 "But this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 "No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more."